Woofcast #269 Posted on September 8, 2008September 11, 2008 by db It’s late. Full notes to follow. Woofcast 269: Download | 8.7mb | 19:00 | WRR @ iTunes 38 thoughts on “Woofcast #269” Another fun show! Add me to the list of MINI fanboys. I’d like to think there were more that a couple thousand of us, but you’re probably right. However, I am NOT re-subscribing to “Mick2” after my current subscription runs out. You’re right. There usually isn’t anything new in the magazine that hasn’t been covered on the internet. Nice, high res pictures and graphics are great, but I’ve never been a huge fan of the magazine’s design. Reply I read magazines, I subscribe to MC2… It’s only $20-25 a year for a subscription, if you can’t give them ~$2 a month to support a fine niche product that’s your decision. Some of the news may be older, but the articles and photologs are top notch. I will re-subscribe when it’s time… Reply I bought MC2 at Books-A-Million at their downtown Chicago store at Clark and Adams. That is the only place I have ever seen MC2 Mag. Has the death watch started? Reply I too read not only “Mc2” but also have subscriptions to Autoweek, MotorTrend, Automobile, Roundel, and Car & Driver. Reply MC2 is great for columns like Coopers Only and historical articles about the marque, plus technical articles that non-experts can learn from. Criticizing it for not being current with the news rather misses the point, imho. Paper can be read anywhere there’s light, no electricity needed. The laundromat, a restaurant, the airport–anywhere can be MINIfied. RIP Jerry Reed. Reply Todd and DB, I felt you guys really “dissed” MC2 Magazine. I subscribe to MC2 and like it. Why would you say the things you did against MC2? I have NEVER read an article or heard the publishers of MC2 disrespecting or minimizing WWR. In my opinion by doing something like that, it’s not only bad thing for the Mini community but also has an effect on others who are just trying to provide an alternate means of information, a service and are in business. I know many people who read and subscribe to Magazines. Maybe all the people you guys know get their news and info off of the internet, but there are many people in this country who still read Magazines and newspapers. Not everyone is a “Techie” and always on the internet. One can take a magazine practical anywhere any time and read it. Can’t say the same with a computer. I started listening to WWR (on motoring file) back at episode #4. I’ll admit I stopped for awhile because I thought at times the show lost it’s way (talking about stuff way off from Minis, – drinking game for one), but I started listening again a little over year and half ago. I now have to re-think if I will continue to do so. The last few shows have once again gone off course (Aircraft, Jerry Lee, etc, etc.) and now the diss against MC2. Also, why hasn’t there been a report or mention on WWR about the Magical Mini Mystery Tour event in San Francisco? It was a big 3 day event with many Mini enthusiasts, sponsors, Lots of Minis (more than 200 from around the country and visiting from other countries), Motoring Runs, Bands, events, and the British Council in S.F. supporting and participating in it. You guys talk about ANVIV, Mini United and MTTS, why not MMMT? This event has it’s place among those events. Dare I say it, was it because WWR and Motoring file weren’t the stars of this event? Yet on WWR there is talk of gin, Aircraft “Bhp”, Movies and actors, IPhones and other non-Mini related things, but when it comes to an event that brought the Mini Community together, it doesn’t even get a mention. So sad. Reply First I am a Mini nut of the first order. MC2 – I was a charter subscriber. Having said that I can honestly say that once my 2 year subscription is done I will not be re-subscribing. Can’t nail one thing down about the magazine but overall I have to say its pretty much lost all its interest. I have recently subscribed to Modern Mini out of the UK and can say I really like the magazine. I can honestly also say I haven’t gleaned a single piece of info out of a magazine in a long while that I haven’t already gotten from the web. Reply I have to admit, I still use paper magazines. I usually keep an issue of something in my messenger bag for a quick read when I’m stuck somewhere. They’re much more convenient and lighter than a laptop which is especially nice when I ride my bike. Keep up the great show. I love the banter – MINI related or not. Reply You guys talk about ANVIV, Mini United and MTTS, why not MMMT? This event has it’s place among those events. Dare I say it, was it because WWR and Motoring file weren’t the stars of this event? Here are the facts – MINI United was attended by nearly 10,000 enthusiasts from around the world. MTTS – more than 5,000 combined and AMVIV is the largest annual MINI gathering in North America (The Dragon runs close). We miss a great number of regional events like MINIs on Top, MINIs in the Mountains and even MMMT. Time and expense prevents us from attending every regional event each year but we do cover the largest ones. We understand that everyone is passionate about their favorite event and we’d love to do this full time and cover everything but right now it’s just not possible. Tune in next week as we will elaborate on this topic. Reply todd wrote: “Time and expense prevents us from attending every regional event each year but we do cover the largest ones. We understand that everyone is passionate about their favorite event and we’d love to do this full time and cover everything but right now it’s just not possible. Tune in next week as we will elaborate on this topic.” Todd, I wouldn’t expect that either you and/or db to attend every Mini event around the country. That was not my point. The point was that the event wasn’t even mentioned on WWR. What WWR could have done is to contact the organizer and possibly do an interview with him/her. After all, isn’t WWR about MINI’s and all related (including large gatherings)? No one expects WWR and Motoring file founders to go around the country and attend all events. You are correct, it would be a full time job and after all each of you have jobs. IMO, if WWR can talk about IPhones, alcohol, movies, etc, then WWR can report on the larger events, in this case, a 3 day event that had people from all around the country and from other countries participate and attend. It doesn’t matter if it’s 10,000, 5,000 or 500 people. It’s not about “everyone being passionate about “their” favorite event”, it’s about reporting on things to do with MINI. Did WWR even contact the organizers of MMMT to ask about it or get some info? It doesn’t appear to be the case. Reply >IMO, if WWR can talk about IPhones, alcohol, movies, etc, then WWR can report on the larger events, in this case, a 3 day event that had people from all around the country and from other countries participate and attend. Excellent point. But you will also notice that we didn’t talk about MINIs on the Mountains, MINIs on Top, The Dragon or countless other regional MINI events. We can’t just cover 1 regional event. If we do, then we have to cover *all* of them. While I would love to be able to do that, there just isn’t the time. It would be nice if we were able to do this and only this (WRR and MF) as our full time jobs. But, as of now, we can’t. One day maybe, but not today. Reply db wrote: “But you will also notice that we didn’t talk about MINIs on the Mountains, MINIs on Top, The Dragon or countless other regional MINI events.” The WWR and MF staff have given extensive coverage to the “dragon”, a regional Mini event. In fact lots of talk, video, etc about the dragon over the years. My suggestion, get the oganizers of an event to put together a “short” e-mail on the event and send it to WWR staff. On the show, read the info. It would take all of about 3 to 5 minutes of the show (that is usually 45 to 60 minutes in length). IMO that’s would be fair. WWR doesn’t have to report on every weekend club run, no one expects that, but larger events that involve lots of participatants from multiple organizations (city officials, vendors, etc) should get a little bit of coverage. TJ Reply Hey guys, just wanted to say that I first found MC2 on the shelves at the Barnes & Noble in Huntsville, AL and after a few months, subscribed. Unfortunately APO shipping means that I usually don’t get the issue until it’s just about out of date so I won’t be renewing. I’m also one of those folks who check MotoringFile a few times a day but don’t fall into the “Hardcore” category (mainly because I’d consider an R60 😉 ) Reply Man I wish I was at this show… you guys would have loved to hear what I thought about it all. Regarding the Magical Mini Mystery Tour – absolutely no disrespect intended but I’ve personally never heard of it. Like Todd and DB said we cover national/International events like the Dragon, MTTS, MINI United and AMVIV. Events with 500 or more cars. If this particular event was at the level then we should definitely cover it. It sounds like it was cool but much smaller (based on the comments above). People forget that it’s very hard to do something that is essentially a full-time job in our spare time. It takes a enormous level of dedication (less on my part more from the other guys) to get this all done every week – twice. Ideally we’d all be making a full-time living off of this stuff and not only cover every MINI event but be at all of them. Reply Gabe, Todd, db; MMMT website: http://www.magicalmysteryminitour.com/ Reply Maybe a quick calendar of events would be a good solution? Just put the responsibility of providing that information in the hands of the event organizers. Have them contact you with event specifics, dates, locations. Of course, that’ll add another 20-30 minutes to the end of each show to make sure folks know about all the happy hours, coffee runs, autocross events, track days and monthly meetings that are available across the country. Reply Great – if you know anyone who wants to create, maintain and update let us know 🙂 Reply I heard TJ has some time on his hands. LOL! Just kidding. Reply Thanks for the mentions. Our event dates for 2009 are August 5-9, 2009. Stay tuned, we have many new surprises for you. Jonathan Souza Hi Ho Silver Reply GB- “Regarding the Magical Mini Mystery Tour – absolutely no disrespect intended but I’ve personally never heard of it.” Maybe you guys forgot that you introduced me at 2007 AMVIV Banquet and you asked me about about the Magical Mystery Mini Tour and I gave a promo or perhaps you ignored all my emails asking that you at least mention the event or that I asked how much money it might cost to get at least a mention. Maybe you never look at the NAM listings for national events. Maybe you guys just don’t give a s… That’s fine with me. The Magical Mystery Mini Tour will stand on its own merrit, and it has. I never expected that WRR would spend a dime to attend our event. I did think you might give it mention for the sake of the Mini community. Perhaps DB forgot the several telephone conversations we had about this. I would not, nor am I willing not beg anybody or kiss anybody’s A to promote any event we host. I was willing to pay a fair dollar to advertise. Reply >Maybe you guys forgot that you introduced me at 2007 AMVIV Banquet and you asked me about about the Magical Mystery Mini Tour and I gave a promo or perhaps you ignored all my emails asking that you at least mention the event or that I asked how much money it might cost to get at least a mention. Can’t say I personally remember. I really sincerely apologize but we talked to hundreds of people that night. It was sorta of a blur. >Maybe you never look at the NAM listings for national events. I haven’t been on NAM in months and probably never looked at the national event listing. I honestly didn’t know there was one. I wish I could find someone to do it for MF. I’ve been looking for years. How cool would it be to have a standard Friday posting of all large events going on that weekend?! >Maybe you guys just don’t give a s… That’s fine with me. I think we all do… the last thing we want to do is to not give a cool event some publicity. We simply run out of time and energy. However if we’ve missed anything it wasn’t done on purpose and certainly wasn’t meant to be disrespectful in any way. Reply It’s obvious to me that there is nothing that either Todd, Gabe or myself can say to make this better. We’ve said over and over again that it was not our intention to not cover this, or any other, event. Not good enough. We’ve said over and over again that we are working on this and MF as much as our personal and professional lives will allow. Not good enough. Gabe says he hasn’t been on NAM in months. I haven’t either. Honestly, I can’t stand to go there at all because of the nasty, angry and ignorant comments that are left there. And now it’s starting to spill over into MF and, sadly, here are WRR. Frankly I’m tired of it. It would appear that you are looking for free promotion for you event. That’s fine, we do it all the time. But leaving nasty comments on our site is the wrong way to do it. The correct way would have been to send over a note saying that the event was finished and it was a huge success (with lots of exclamation points – see Fireball Tim’s blog for examples). Attached to that note should have been a well worded press release type document with links to some photos online that we could have used in posting as well as a link to the main site. Had I gotten an email like that, or even a link to a blog post someplace else via the either the MF or WRR contact form, I would have gladly posted it, since none of us attended the event. But that didn’t happen. There are two things that can happen here. First is that I’m going to close comments on this post until tomorrow. Then, if I were you, I would call a mulligan. Sometimes you have to be the squeaky wheel. Sometimes you might have to squeak for more than a few miles. But, as long as you are making the noise, someone will give you some grease. Reply IMO, this is YOUR podcast and you are welcome to talk (or not) talk about anything you want. You talk about MINI related things because you want to, not because you have to. Just because your show is based on talking about MINIs, I honestly think I would have dropped off long ago (or listened to less frequently), if that was ALL you talked about. I still like that MINIs are part of the theme and tone of the show, but you’ve managed to create a good balance of content that is fun to listen to. That being said, I hope you got my sarcasm on post 16. Your show would become extremely less interesting if you guys spent 20-30 minutes running through a national calendar of events. Sure, some events warrant more attention than most, but who has the time to sort through all that? Unfortunately, some folks think they have better ideas of how your show should be run. Maybe they should start their own podcast. About MMMT. I was sad that I missed the event, but reading some of the feedback here, I’m sensing a tone that feels negative and slightly embittered from the representatives of that event (I’m only assuming they are). Now my sadness is displace with discontent. In the end, I want to say that I like how the show has evolved. I feel like I’m listening in at the virtual water cooler at a MINI meeting. We’re all there because of MINIs, but the conversation isn’t always about them. Relatable banter with a few familiar voices. Reply How much of a PITA would it be to post an events calander here on the site DB? That you could reference it every couple of shows, i.e. “And don’t forget to check http://www.whiteroofradio.com for upcoming MINI events in your area.” And then folks could send in info via the contact form and someone with rights to the site can update. (Just my 2p of course ;)) Reply dickdavid wrote: “IMO, this is YOUR podcast and you are welcome to talk (or not) talk about anything you want. You talk about MINI related things because you want to, not because you have to.” dd, you are correct – 100%! The guys who run and own WWR can talk about anything they want, because yes it IS their show. I hope would that the WWR folks don’t look at it that way though, because it should be about the listening audience. If there was no audience, would there be a show? Maybe. Per the ratings on itunes, WWR is one of the top subscribed, so I guess that means the audience does listen and like what they are hearing. Some shows I do, many others I don’t, that’s why I have unsubscribed from itunes. I have made my “consumer’ choice. Enough on that. “About MMMT. I was sad that I missed the event, but reading some of the feedback here, I’m sensing a tone that feels negative and slightly embittered from the representatives of that event (I’m only assuming they are). Now my sadness is displace with discontent.” dd: I am not an organizer of the event. I did attend. It’s not about MMMT! My comments were about events in general that are not mentioned (in this case MMMT) or should get a mention. IMO, it doesn’t matter if it’s ABCD, EFGH or MMMT. If the organizer from ABCD Mini event contacts the staff of WWR (via e-mail, snail mail, phone call, fax, etc) and says, “on XX date in XX state/city there will be a Mini event named ABCD with XXX number of Minis and with bands, vendors and sponsors,” then I feel that WWR should announce on it’s podcast, “hey folks, there is a MINI event in XX on XX. Contact Joe Doe for info at xxx.com or at 000-000-0000. To those listening, if you’re going to attend, let us know how it was. Thanks.” That’s all. Now I know, db, Todd and Gabe are a bit upset with this subject. They feel unfairly criticized. WWR guys, it was not intended to be critical, just expressing my thoughts and providing listener feed back. It’s not being negative, just providing comments (and feedback) which is set up on the site. If a site wishes to only have 100% agreement, then maybe some type of filter of comments should be done or no comments allowed. Thank you and have a good day. Reply BTW. Where IS the contact form on your site? Reply OK, back on track, count me as a die hard fan of the MINI. I wouldn’t have thought so until DB and Todd started listing the traits one would expect to find. I’ve been listening to WRR for quite awhile and have listened (just once) to each and every one of the shows that came through the iTunes feed. I check motoringfile.com every day and check NAM at least once in awhile. I would buy the magazine MC2 if I could find it, but even though I work in the same area as their main office, I have yet to see it on a newstand. I guess I never will now. I agree with some of the comments (like dickdavid) that WRR is the baby of DB and Todd (and to a lesser degree now, Gabe) and they can and should do the show anyway they like. There are plenty of avenues for putting out information about regional events, NAM for example. Keep up the good work, I appreciate your efforts. Reply First off thanks to everyone for listening. We wouldn’t continue to do this show if nobody was listening and people still seem to be tuning in by the thousands. As of today we’re still in the top 10 automotive podcasts at iTunes and we all take great pride in that. We are not perfect yet we continually strive to improve our show and try new and different things. Some things work, some things don’t but we truly appreciate the reception our listeners give us because we put a lot of effort into doing this twice each week. Thanks again to all our listeners and we’ll keep doing our best to entertain and inform you to the best of our abilities. Reply >BTW. Where IS the contact form on your site? For WRR? It’s here, http://www.whiteroofradio.com/contact Reply Thanks db. I couldn’t find a link from your home page. Reply TJ- I just saw your post. You are right. It is about coming up with content that the listener’s want to hear. I just get a kick out of the few folks who give feedback because they want to change it to meet their personal needs and not the needs of the entire audience. Obviously, the guys are doing something right to get their current ratings. Could change bring in more ratings? I’m not sure, but it’s only up to them to figure that out. Maybe if they change the show, it may end up being less interesting for folks. Also, my comments about MMMT were not directed at you or your comments but more for Norm. Sorry for not making that clear. I can see how your plan about contacting the staff with event info might work, but the general read that I’m getting from the staff is that there isn’t enough time to sort through all that information. Back to my comment earlier, how do you decide which events are podcast worthy. You can’t announce them all, because that would take forever and most folks don’t care about every little event that goes on across the country. Do you care that my local club is having a picnic next weekend? Even if you do sort through the events, you then run the risk of pissing off the other folks who get rejected. You can’t win. From an outsider’s perspective, I respect the fact that you have feedback for the show. I just think your harsh tone is less productive. Reply dd wrote: ….”how do you decide which events are podcast worthy. You can’t announce them all, because that would take forever and most folks don’t care about every little event that goes on across the country. Do you care that my local club is having a picnic next weekend?” You’re right. Announcing a (every) weekend/weekend day club runs or picnic shouldn’t be a feature of WWR (IMO). Some type of reasonable standard would have to be set. Keyword is “reasonable”. Something that has a minimum number of participants, not some excessively high bench mark number like; 10,000 or 5,000 or even 1,000 people, but maybe 250 or more people or cars, it would need to have sponsor involvement, city/government official backing/involvement (in the case of MMMT the British Consul General for San Francisco was the MC) and some other criteria. The guys at WWR would need to sort that out. Now for me personally, the Dragon event does not meet those criteria, but because it is famous, and it attracts interest and people from around the country, talking about it on the podcast is good. Yes, some groups or people might be upset if their event wasn’t announced, but that is where it’s made clear to all listeners (and others that want to announce their event) what the bench mark and guidelines are for WWR to announce an event on the podcast. Have it posted on the site and be clear about it. If they know, then they can’t say much. dd wrote: “From an outsider’s perspective, I respect the fact that you have feedback for the show. I just think your harsh tone is less productive.” Yup, absolutely. Giving feedback that is harsh does nothing. I can understand how anyone (db, Todd , Gabe, etc) would not like it. I have already apologized to db about that (via contact link). That was poor behavior on my part. I was frustrated (not a good excuse though) with the contents of the last few podcasts. I, like many/most people have a busy schedule, and if I take the time to listen to something (anything) and it’s not what I expect then I feel I’ve wasted time. Therein lies the issue, “expected”. I was under the assumption that WWR is about MINI/Mini and related. If the podcast has Mini and related info/content but is not 100% about it, then I misunderstood. My interest is in hearing about Mini and related 98%+ of the time. IMHO, if I want to hear about Airplanes, Beer (and alcohol) iphones, movies, etc, etc, I would search out podcasts that focus on those subjects. Again, it appears I misunderstood what WWR content encompasses. That’s on me. Understanding that now, it is up to me whether I choose to continue listening to WWR, understanding that other subjects besides Mini’s will be discussed. I’ve made a decision not to. It’s nothing against WWR, db, Todd or Gabe. I’ll continue to check MF for news and info. It’s a good site with lots of excellent content. I’ve found another site that is more towards my listening pleasure. It that has some additional info on Minis and does some monthly podcasts that focus 100% on Mini and related (they are for now anyway). I do wish WWR continued success and fun. Cheers. Reply TJ, I hear what your are saying about your need for different content. Unfortunately, WRR isn’t for everybody. I do enjoy the banter on the show (almost as much as the feedback pages -LOL), but I’m kinda quirky that way. I’m glad you found a podcast that works for you. Cheers Reply It was not my intent to start a debate, or to attack WRR. My only issue was that I wanted to point out that WRR and others did not mention MMMT. I would not expect WRR to attend and cover the event, this costs money and I do understand that, but I would hope for a “mention” once in a while. MTTS, AMVIV, MINI United, MOTD, MITM, MOT, MMW, and many more are great events and deserve and have earned recognition. There is a difference between “coverage” and “mention” as there is a difference between “mention” and to “ignore”. WRR you have a very sucessful business and show, you serve the Mini community, this is all good. Just wanted to point out that there are other significant events that are run by others. We all can’t drive to MOTD or AMVIV or MTTS, but some other these other events should get a mention. I don’t recommend reading a listing of every regional event. In my very biased opinion, I think MMMT was a great event at a super venue with a tremendous turnout. It might have been even better with more Mini community “media” support. Good luck, keep up the good work, and realize that there are others trying to make this Mini community better. Reply Finally just had a chance to get caught up to show #269 and wanted to let you guys know that I just subscribed (for 2 years!) to MC2 this past June at MTTS Chicago. Unfortunately, I have yet to receive my first copy, so I’m at a lost as to how to respond. Keep up the great work! Reply I don’t know if I would consider myself “hardcore” but I do check MotoringFile everyday, listen to the podcasts weekly, and peruse NAM from time to time. I started listening back in May of 06 when I was considering purchasing a Mini. With all of the design changes coming for 07, I had so many questions and WRR and MotoringFile helped answer a lot of them and are in many ways responsible for the purchase of my 07 Cooper S. I have tried to listen to a handful of other automotive podcasts but don’t find them to be as entertaining or as professionally done as WRR. The Mini content is great but having some other stuff added in does make for a nice balance. I seem to be interested in a lot of the other content that creeps into WRR, maybe it’s part of the same reasons I like my Mini. As for MC2, I’ve been receiving it for the last year and a half but haven’t found the articles very informative as of late, and the news not timely at all. When my subscription runs out, I won’t be renewing. Lastly, for those complaining about WRR, give the guys a break! This is their spare time (of which I for one don’t seem to have any) they are using to give the Mini community a great resource for things Mini! I for one applaud and thank DB, Todd and Gabe for their efforts, driving to work listening to WRR is great way to start the week! Reply I’m not sure how I found out about MC2, but it’s a fun read, the pictures are nice and it promotes a sense of community. I especially like the event reports and the DIY stuff. Those who listen to Podcasts like WRR most likely don’t get their news from any print publication anyway. MC2 supports the MINI brand and, because of that I will continue to support them. Funny thing happened to me AFTER ordering my first MINI a year ago. Through research and/or free offers I discovered NAM, WRR, then Top Gear, then started subscribing to: MC2, Car and Driver (school fundraiser), Automobile (gift) and Motor Trend (gift from MINI). Not to mention AMVIV and MTTS! I wonder what I was doing with all of this free time BM? (Before MINI) Reply This is not a forum of freedom of speech, just delete any WRR or MINI haters. I don’t have enough time left to devote to haters! Reply Leave a Reply Cancel reply Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *Comment Name * Email * Website Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Notify me of new posts by email. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.